The Phaeton: Will America Ever be Ready?

"Jagvar" (Jagvar)
03/07/2014 at 11:14 • Filed to: None

From its beginnings, the Volkswagen Phaeton was a car that got people talking. When it launched in 2003 for the 2004 model year, the car-buying public was stirred by what it saw: a full-size luxury sedan proffered by a non-luxury brand. In the U.S., the Phaeton was offered with two engines: a 335hp V8 and 420hp (later 444hp) W12. In Europe, a V6, V6 turbodiesel, V8, V10 turbodiesel, and W12 were available. Volkswagen took a decidedly ambitious leap, adding a $100,000 12-cylinder luxury flagship to an otherwise non-luxury lineup. The base price of the V8 model in 2004 was $64,600, and $94,600 for the W12. In Europe, prices were even higher, with the V8 model starting at €73,350 ($82,500). By comparison, Volkswagen's most expensive sedan prior to the Phaeton was the Passat W8, with a base price of just $37,900.

The Phaeton was an enormous investment for Volkswagen, which spent approximately $900 million on its development. Volkswagen's initial U.S. sales target was 5,000/yr., but annual sales never topped 1,500. Citing high losses in the North American market, Volkswagen pulled the Phaeton in the fall of 2006, after just three years of sales.

The Phaeton's U.S. failure can't be blamed on marketing, at least not entirely. It just wasn't a car that clicked with any American target audience. Non-luxury buyers couldn't afford it. New-luxury buyers (for whom status and image are strong purchase-drivers) weren't drawn to the brand. Old-luxury buyers avoid the new, sticking with tried-and-true. So just what was the market for the Phaeton in the United States?

Volkswagen's answer: "transcendent drivers." In other words, Volkswagen marketed the Phaeton to luxury buyers less apt to judge luxury by a nameplate. "It's the people who go into Starbucks because they like the coffee but pour it into a generic cup because they don't like the label," said author James Twitchell. The problem is that this kind of American is a rarity. Volkswagen found more transcendent drivers in Europe, and even more in Asia.

Volkswagen invested considerable time and money in its efforts to sell the Phaeton. This included research, advertising, promotional events, special lease offers, and cash incentives. VW first enlisted the help of wealthy socialites in Los Angeles and New York; these socialites each invited a total of 50 friends to dinner parties, which Volkswagen marketing staffers attended anonymously. The hosts were encouraged to steer the conversation toward cars, and guests collectively voiced a strong allegiance to BMW and Mercedes-Benz. Only one in eight was identified as a transcendent driver.

Volkswagen again approached American luxury consumers in 2003 when it partnered with W Hotels. The automaker and the upscale hotel chain collaborated to stage test-drives and exhibits for W guests in New York, Chicago, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. Invitations were mailed to 50,000 BMW and Mercedes-Benz owners. What followed was a series of onsite test-drives and shuttles for preferred W guests. Volkswagen presented a bottle of wine and corkscrew set to each person who took a 24-hour test-drive. The W/Phaeton campaign subsequently won the Promotion Marketing Association's "Reggie" Award for best regional market promotion over $1 million.

In Germany, movie stars were transported to the 55th Berlin International Film Festival in Phaetons in 2005. The Phaeton received prime exposure at the festival, which attracts 16,000 film industry professionals each year.

In 2005, Phaeton sales went into a steep dive in North America. While Volkswagen AG ambitiously promoted the Phaeton in Berlin, American dealers offered large cash incentives on remaining 2004 Phaetons. The annual sales target was lowered to 2,000. Volkswagen mailed offers to 100,000 owners of BMW, Jaguar, and Mercedes-Benz vehicles to test-drive the Phaeton for 48 hours. In November 2005, the announcement was made: the Phaeton would ride out the 2006 model year, and then withdraw from the United States. While German sales of the Phaeton were averaging a steady 2,000 – 3,000 a year, U.S. sales dropped steadily, sealing the car's fate.

A Noble Effort

Over the car's 3-year run in the U.S., executives, dealers, and journalists reached a near-unanimous conclusion on the Phaeton's U.S. failure: a non-luxury brand does nothing to enhance a driver's image or status. Jim Sanfilippo, analyst with AMCI Detroit, predicted the Phaeton's failure in the American market shortly after its launch. "Phaeton is a spectacular automobile, up and down. The dilemma is that the car's all there [except the] badge, and that matters because the people who buy these things aren't purists. Many buy on reputation and instant prestige, and autophiles know Audi is [Volkswagen's] upscale product."

While not a volume seller, the Phaeton enjoyed relative success in the German market. Not altogether shocking; to Germans, it was a domestic product. While the term "import" carries prestige in America, Germans historically do a better job of supporting their own economy by buying German products.

Engine variety may also have been the car's saving grace in Germany. The European Phaeton is available with five engines, including two V6s and two diesels. When launching a full-size luxury sedan in the U.S., however, automakers are limited in the engines they can market. Historically, luxobarges with anything smaller than a V8 have been criticized as underpowered in the U.S., and diesels are still gaining acceptance. Volkswagen didn't launch anything beyond a V8 and a W12 in America because nothing else had a chance.

Volkswagen knew the Phaeton was a risk. Moving a brand upmarket is a difficult task, especially when that brand tries to move up with a car that, when fully equipped, costs more than $100,000. The Phaeton, says David Menzies of the journal Marketing , was simply too ambitious. "It's easy to bring a brand down-market. But bringing a brand up-market – even an established, world renowned brand – is extremely difficult, perhaps impossible."

DISCUSSION (73)

Tom McParland > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 11:15

Lot's of thought provoking stuff on Oppo today, I think the Phaeton can work again especially if they aim for the K900/ Equus.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 11:19

If they would have badged it as an Audi, it would have survived.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > Tom McParland
03/07/2014 at 11:19

Good point. The Korean luxo barges are pretty impressive. But I still don't see many of those roaming the streets.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 11:20

No.

A VW with Bentley priced services.

LoLz.

For Sweden > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 11:22

Kinja'd!!!

You need this outfit

WHY DON'T YOU HAVE THIS OUTFIT

For Sweden > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
03/07/2014 at 11:23

See: A8

Sn210 > Tom McParland
03/07/2014 at 11:24

I'm curious to see how the K900 and Cadenza will do for Kia. I think Kia has a more negative brand connotation than VW did when they launched the Phaeton here. I know Kia has come a long way, but I think their stigma is still fresh on people's minds.

philipilihp > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 11:24

Perfect car for the luxury hipster. They want the quality but buy the Volkswagen ironically. So basically it's the PBR of cars.

offroadkarter > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 11:24

it just comes down to the simple fact that most people won't buy an expensive car with a "cheap" brand name on it. I mean VW is essentially the German Toyota, would you buy a $90,000 toyota?

Mathias Rios > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
03/07/2014 at 11:24

A8?

Jagvar > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
03/07/2014 at 11:25

That's actually kind of the point I was making. The first thing people do is look at the badge on the grille. If it isn't one that will make the neighbors jealous, it's not worth the money, at least to Americans.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 11:26

I'm not sure we ever will be ready for it, at least in the near future. Hyundai Equus, Kia K9 are two examples of cars that are trying to do that right now, and I dont know if its really working. Our society is so driven by brands.

That being said Volkswagens push is working very well among the young generation, you'know the kids who can have their parents buy them a new car? Yeah, the Passat is probably the most popular foreign of those buyers*, which is a big deal in southeast Michigan. So maybe that will help them move upmarket in the distant future.

*Based off of my High School parking lot, when I was in high school. There is no science here. At all.

ddavidn > philipilihp
03/07/2014 at 11:26

PBR is... not as good as a Phaeton... But you're on the right track.

Jagvar > offroadkarter
03/07/2014 at 11:28

Kinja'd!!!

*ahem*

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > For Sweden
03/07/2014 at 11:28

Exactly.

philipilihp > ddavidn
03/07/2014 at 11:29

Haha yeah it's probably not entirely fair to compare a fine piece of machinery that was meticulously designed to the highest specifications, to a crappy beer that won its last prize in the early 20th century and was, until about 5 years ago, only bought by college kids because it was the cheapest shit around.

But at least you get my point, right?

Jagvar > Sn210
03/07/2014 at 11:30

I drove the Cadenza, and I really, really liked it. It's that good because it has to be to stand a chance in the marketplace.

Jagvar > For Sweden
03/07/2014 at 11:31

Kinja'd!!!

Because one is expected to wear seersucker to the polo club.

Also, I prefer pinstripes.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 11:31

And we're known the world over for being cheap bastards, so even if the Phaeton is worth it (And I completely agree it is. Any car that pushes boundaries of technology is always worth it.), the typical American won't pay for it because it's too subtle.

The herp-derp NASCARfootball crowd doesn't do subtle.

For Sweden > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 11:32

Kinja'd!!!

You can put very tasteful pinstripes on a VW.

BrtStlnd > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 11:32

To answer the question you ask in your title, no. There will never be a U.S. market for an $80,000 Volkswagen. I can't believe VW spent almost a billion dollars on this Captain Ahab-esque project.

I know in reality it's every bit as good as an A8 or 7-series, but this has to be the largest miscalculation of a target market in modern automotive history. Transcendent drivers?

ddavidn > philipilihp
03/07/2014 at 11:33

Yes, yes I got your point. I drink Rainier, and I think it's great for the price. And it's basically PBR.

Jagvar > For Sweden
03/07/2014 at 11:35

Ooh, that'd class up the P!

Jagvar > BrtStlnd
03/07/2014 at 11:39

Hey now, I'm pretty darn transcendent.

BrtStlnd > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 11:42

Yeah but clearly they had no idea how much of an outlier they were looking for. They were looking for a niche of a niche of a niche and spent $900 million dollars trying to make a car for that person.

Klaus Schmoll > BrtStlnd
03/07/2014 at 11:44

I think it was more of a marketing exercise. They showed the world what they are capable of, and they had a halo car that helped raise the brand image as they moved VW upmarket in Europe. It's probably nearly impossible to assess if they sold more Passats because they looked like the Phaeton's mini-me, but I strongly belive so. Also, Ferdinand Piech! It was his pet project for whatever reasons, and he would have built it no matter the cost.

chromecarz00 > BrtStlnd
03/07/2014 at 11:48

But there is room for a $60,000 KIA?

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > For Sweden
03/07/2014 at 11:51

This. This is what I never understood with the Phaeton—they already had Audi, which already had an established (and improving) brand, and already had dealerships that were used to catering to this audience. Part of what you get (and pay a massive premium for) with a high-end car is supposed to be the dealership experience—and when the dealership's bread and butter is selling Golfs and Jettas, how much focus can they really afford to put on selling something so different?

offroadkarter > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 11:55

everybody gets one

BrtStlnd > chromecarz00
03/07/2014 at 11:58

I doubt it but I suppose we'll see...

chromecarz00 > BrtStlnd
03/07/2014 at 12:08

Well the $70000 Hyundai has been around for awhile and seems to be doing alright...

desertdog5051 > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 12:11

I remember seeing it at the Detroit Auto Show (NAIAS). My thoughts were "That's a lot of money for something with a VW badge". I told my buddy that it would flop here and I was right.

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 12:12

I don't like VAG by default and the Phaeton is no exception, but let's put the facts clear on the table here.
It's as nice as an Audi A8, and almost as nice as a Bentley Continental. It has four wheel drive and a 12 cylinder engine in the options list. It's (IMO) prettier than an A8. However, it has the same badge as your grandmother's Golf. It gives no impression of flauting wealth. I believe a certain brand called GMC has acquired a customer base out of that recipe.
And no, there are no "transcendent drivers" in European countries whatsoever. Trust me, in general brand snobbery is bigger than in the US. Volkswagen only suffers less because they're German, sieg heil.

BrtStlnd > chromecarz00
03/07/2014 at 12:21

Hyundai sold 3,972 Equuses (Equusi ?) in 2012 and 3,578 in 2013... so that's about a 10% drop YoY.

chromecarz00 > BrtStlnd
03/07/2014 at 12:30

What were they aiming for though...

BrtStlnd > chromecarz00
03/07/2014 at 12:39

I'm sure they were aiming to sell more of them every year.

Paul Thompson > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 13:28

I remember seeing a Phaeton on the lot as I bought a pre-owned 2001 Passatt. I told myself, if I ever spend $70K on a car, it sure as hell won't be a VW.

Jagvar > Paul Thompson
03/07/2014 at 13:31

I only spent $20K on mine. Depreciation special. :)

McLarry > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 13:41

Wishful thinking, but maybe it was just the timing? A year or 2 later the housing market crashed and now people seem a lot more open to 'uppity' luxury models from 'lesser' brands. Case in point: the Equus is apparently selling at a rate of 3-4k units a year in the US (according to some website)... If Hyundai can pull that off, I really don't see how VW could not.

The other thing that has always bothered me is the way the car looks... No better way to say it, but it looks boring. It looks like a Passat...sure, park it next to one and you'll see the difference, but I doubt you'll get a second look driving down the street. This makes it particularly nice for folks who want to keep a low profile but maintain luxury (the same type of folks who would rather buy a Maybach than a Rolls I imagine, but that model didn't exactly work well for Maybach either...). This brings me to the conclusion that Americans really like the appearance of luxury, perhaps even more than the substance of it. The Equus looks expensive. Perhaps this is the whole reason why we see brand snobbishness - people care more about other people's perception of their car (often based largely on the brand image) than the actual quality of the car. If the new cars I keep seeing in dealerships are any indication, the norm is to focus on an expressive exterior (generally looking either angry and muscular or 'cute') and throw in a shoddy, boring, uncomfortable interior made of molded-plastic.

tl;dr, Americans are shallow... But I think the Phaeton would do better now than it did then.

MTY85 > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 14:17

It didn't get people talking, it got car people talking, and buzz on an enthusiast forum does NOT equate to sales.

PS9 > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 14:58

People largely buy luxury cars for that badge. A car priced to compete with germany's best, but wearing a rubbish badge is alway gonna be a hard sell in this country.

But , there is also a subset of folks would would like some stealth to go with their wealth. Some people don't really care to much for the 'LOOK AT ME I HAVE MONEEEEEEY' factor that goes along with luxo badges. The Phaeton will work for those people, but unlike before where it was the only one of it's kind, we now have the K900, Equus and (to a much lesser extent) the SS competing for that tiny market. The Phaeton and other cars like it will never be a volume seller. But it can work so long as you're okay with low volume sales.

dal20402 > Tom McParland
03/07/2014 at 17:17

People in this country are just too brand conscious. VW already has Audi, which is a fine name for luxury cars. There is no reason to try to do the impossible and sell VWs to luxury buyers.

Kia and Hyundai are also taking the wrong tack. The Cadenza and Azera are not a bad idea, but the K900 and Genesis/Equus should have been given to a new luxury brand that would try to replicate the Lexus story.

tomjoad2020ad > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 17:31

"It's the people who go into Starbucks because they like the coffee but pour it into a generic cup because they don't like the label," said author James Twitchell.

I have *never* met this person. If they do exist, I'm not going to bet a $900 million dollar project on them.

samssun > BrtStlnd
03/07/2014 at 20:09

Agreed, but I don't think the car should go away. They just need to sell it for 50k/70k (V8/W12).

This would give it a leg up on the competition, as well as keep Audi's full sizes from being an alternative, and it wouldn't eat into VW sales. The leap from 32k CC to 65k is too much, and the same for the 65k/95k spread.

darthd > McLarry
03/07/2014 at 23:18

People buy things they don't need, with money they don't have, to impress people they don't like.

Team6.1 > Jagvar
03/07/2014 at 23:52

America. Land of the badge. Instagram how rich you are, how much you ball out, what you wear, etc. At the end of the day, it's VW. And regardless of how nice it is, people are gonna see VW, and the people who can drop the $$ want image, and the Phaeton just can't provide.

OnlyTheShadowKnows > BrtStlnd
03/08/2014 at 01:33

How much did Mercedes blow on the Maybach?

OnlyTheShadowKnows > BrtStlnd
03/08/2014 at 02:01

Nope. The Maybach was an even larger miscalculation of a target market. Mercedes sank $1.32 billion into that luxobarge. And only build 3,000 total. VW actually built Bentleys out of their over-engineered barge.

Scurvy > BrtStlnd
03/08/2014 at 07:06

A top level Toureng comes it at close to $70k and I can't spit without hitting one around here.

julienjj > Goshen, formerly Darkcode
03/08/2014 at 09:40

Explain me why people commonly debadge their car then ?

All manufacturer offer their car totaly debadged from the factory in the EU.

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > julienjj
03/08/2014 at 09:50

Debadging only removes the model badge. The manufacturer badge is still present.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Jagvar
03/08/2014 at 13:46

I just saw one CL earlier for only $12,000!

So tempting but the maintenance scares me.. maybe if I see one at Carmax

Torinotony > Jagvar
03/08/2014 at 13:48

I think the reason the car failed is more complex than the badge. At that time they were selling the B5.5 Passat which had great overlap with the Audi A4/A6, even if most Passat owners didn't know or care. But VW reliability was abysmal and the dealers weren't generally much better. If the dealers had a hard time keeping mainstream cars like the Passat going and the owners happy, how in Hades could they deal with a much more complex, limited production car with such different EVERYTHING going right?

MN > Jagvar
03/08/2014 at 20:02

Ready, yes. Ready to reject it. And the same thing will happen if that car comes here again.

Did you EVER try to get one of those serviced? I have seen VW service writers run away when a Phaeton approaches.

MN > Goshen, formerly Darkcode
03/08/2014 at 20:04

Because they're German? That must be why Toyota never caught on here.

MN > Jagvar
03/08/2014 at 20:07

Ready? Sure....at $11.4.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ctd/436537…

Jagvar > MN
03/08/2014 at 20:18

Kinja'd!!!

You must be new here. I've had mine serviced many, many times. I've owned it for years.

davedave1111 > Jagvar
03/08/2014 at 20:37

The Phaeton's main use in the UK appears to be as an executive cab. Is there less of a market for that in the US?

In any case, the Phaeton is more a halo car for the rest of the range than one intended to sell well in its own right. VW is at least a semi-premium brand, and even though everyone says 'I wouldn't spend $80k on a VW', it makes them a lot more willing to spend, say, $65k on a fully-loaded Touareg.

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > MN
03/09/2014 at 10:17

Or Lexus for the matter.

blackjack666 > julienjj
03/09/2014 at 15:47

Because they want you to know they bought an Audi/BMW/Mercedes, not the new 90hp diesel compact with a stick shift.

ACrowley > For Sweden
03/10/2014 at 15:52

I own a Phaeton. Everyone who 'knows' tells me it's a rebadged A8. It's not. Mechanically it's a Bentley Continental with an engine swap (V8) or simply detuned (v12).

ACrowley > tomjoad2020ad
03/10/2014 at 15:55

It's the wrong metaphor. Starbucks is shit. The Phaeton is for people happy to buy luggage from Swaine Adney Brigg but who'd refuse to buy most Louis Vuitton.

MN > Jagvar
03/10/2014 at 23:38

I have to admit it's been a while since I saw that little fiasco at the then-only VW dealer here in Austin. With any luck the two newer ones would have a different attitude. Frankly, I wouldnt' mind having one!

over9k > Jagvar
03/10/2014 at 23:51

I would do very bad things for the V10TD Phaeton.

Very bad things indeed.

wabbastang > Jagvar
03/11/2014 at 02:50

Kinja'd!!!

I am ready for your VW !!

Nickoli > julienjj
03/11/2014 at 05:46

"Model designation delete" isn't that common an option here in the EU, and no badges at all isn't offered by any manufacturer at all as far as I'm aware.

vroompshhhh > Jagvar
03/11/2014 at 09:38

I think this is what ultimately killed the Phaeton:

Kinja'd!!!

For not much more money you could your premium car with a premium badge and an aluminum body.

Rocketred > Jagvar
03/11/2014 at 11:49

I remember seeing a line of these in front of Sothebys in Rockefeller in 2005 and thinking, VW has made it. The car looked just right. Tasteful, with a bit of drama. Those classic simple German lines that say, I don't drink bad/commercial coffee, I am always on time, I don't do package tour vacations, and I never ever brag about my success. By then, the S-Klasse had become a bit over the top with the fender flares, etc. The 7-series was in the Bangle blue period with the awful growth on the trunk. Cadillac had nichts. I thought, this is the car I need When I Grow Up. Not the same old 5-year old CPO S-Class of the GP down the street. Didn't work out.

In any case, I don't think the "miscalculation" is terminal. There is a way to sell the car. The facts are, this car, from 2005 vintage, is every bit as good as some jumped up Korean company car from this year. Hyundai obviously knows this, as they are coming on strong with their terrible "Matrix" ads asking you to "transcend" brand to buy a Kia. Hyundai and Kia may make a good car/washing machine/container ship/phone/satellite. But the autophile knows that VAG makes a great car, not a "good car." Audi is VAG's, upscale brand, but the Autophile would also know that the Phaeton is a cut above anything on the Audi lot, except the recent A8s. The VW has an inherently superior brand for luxury performance cars, but they have to sell that.

So the strategy to bring it back is to sell quality and distinction, not value. People dropping 65-80K are not interested in how much the package with self-dimming mirrors costs in a big luxury sedan. And the very discussion about content is scandalizing—-it smacks of productive labor rather than leisure. The wealthy don't want to be sat down to talk about how cheap they are. They will want to save a few K, but that is something that they will want to keep to themselves, because they do not talk about their money. Hyundai and Kia, by contrast, can only sell content. But the man overlooking the Pacific in his Malibu house in that Acura ad is not thinking, I need a Kia because it has french stitching for less. VW is not a status brand, but the man might look down to his driveway and say, I have a great car from a great car company. I did not compromise, I just did something a little different.

Nonetheless, the first order of business is to clean up the U.S. line up, so there is a continuum of products expressing the same brand values. Right now, VWs best two cars in quality and content are the hoary old Tuareg and CC Executive. Both are completely invisible in the U.S. VW does not market them. VW's halo car is the GTI, a 30K hatchback. VW needs to fill in the range first with a proper modern CUV with an upscale version, and put the CC on the MBQ and make it a proper near-luxury competitor. Bring the Scirocco. It won't sell that much but it will create performance buzz and European credibility to the showroom. The showroom has to look like a place where a t 65K-80 car belongs. It can't just be where people come to buy a Jetta for their kid going off to college.

medhat1 > Tom McParland
03/12/2014 at 00:24

I think Hyundai would consider the Genesis a rousing success (more so than the Equus, which followed later). It really was "out there" for Hyundai, and the idea of a luxury "sub brand" was something we debated in business school (I was getting an MBA at the time, and also subsequently bought a Genesis - love it!). On it's own, a la Phaeton, I doubt the Genesis would have lifted Hyundai's fortunes, but when followed rapidly by the redesigned Sonata, Elantra, and Santa Fe, (not to mention the Equus, which was and is really only a niche vehicle), they really built on that initial momentum (COTY, etc...). VW, as I recall, really didn't have as comprehensive a strategy when they released the Phaeton. The rest of their line pretty much remained as-is. And the rest is history.

seanmcr6 > Jagvar
03/12/2014 at 14:21

IT would have been cheaper and much more effective for VW to launch a premier brand (like lexus/infinity) and build that brand around the phaeton.

VW has been at the leading edge of brand marketing since the 70s. Why they thought they could shift their brand's recognition into the same market as BMW/MB, when they've spent decades positioning themselves in a very different market....is baffling.

MrBillG59 > Jagvar
03/12/2014 at 17:31

You can't allocate the entire $900 Million to development of the Phaeton as what was essentially the same car was also sold as the entry-level Bentley.

Marekoor_The_other_kraut_kar > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
03/13/2014 at 10:47

For god's sake, man, buy the extended warranty if you do. The best money I've ever spent. The warranty, not the car by a long shot.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Marekoor_The_other_kraut_kar
03/13/2014 at 10:50

That was one of the best things I learned from Doug... that extended warranty.

I was amazed at what they offered; if I hit it kind of big and can afford a used Porsche, I would gladly to Carmax and get the warranty